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@@ -114,7 +114,7 @@ table, allowing the test suite to be run be evaluation of the table
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and the results to be collected in the same table.
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-* Tasks [22/37]
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+* Tasks [22/38]
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** TODO Create objects in top level (global) environment [0/5]
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*sessions*
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@@ -332,6 +332,80 @@ level of the console environment will be set *everywhere* inside
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emacs. For this reason I think that it doesn't make any sense to
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worry about session support for emacs-lisp.
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+*** Further thoughts on 'scripting' vs. functional approaches
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+
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+ These are just thoughts, I don't know how sure I am about this.
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+ And again, perhaps I'm not saying anything very radical, just that
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+ it would be nice to have some options supporting things like
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+ receiving text output in the org buffer.
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+
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+ I can see that you've already gone some way down the road towards
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+ the 'last value' approach, so sorry if my comments come rather
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+ late. I am concerned that we are not giving sufficient attention
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+ to stdout / the text that is returned by the interpreters. In
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+ contrast, many of our potential users will be accustomed to a
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+ 'scripting' approach, where they are outputting text at various
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+ points in the code block, not just at the end. I am leaning
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+ towards thinking that we should have 2 modes of evaluation:
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+ 'script' mode, and 'functional' mode.
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+
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+ In script mode, evaluation of a code block would result in *all*
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+ text output from that code block appearing as output in the org
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+ buffer, presumably as an #+begin_example...#+end_example. There
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+ could be an :echo option controlling whether the input commands
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+ also appear in the output. [This is like Sweave].
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+
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+ In functional mode, the *result* of the code block is available as
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+ an elisp object, and may appear in the org buffer as an org
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+ table/string, via the mechanisms you have developed already.
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+
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+ One thing I'm wondering about is whether, in script mode, there
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+ simply should not be a return value. Perhaps this is not so
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+ different from what exists: script mode would be new, and what
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+ exists currently would be functional mode.
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+
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+ I think it's likely that, while code evaluation will be exciting
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+ to people, a large majority of our users in a large majority of
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+ their usage will not attempt to actually use the return value from
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+ a source code block in any meaningful way. In that case, it seems
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+ rather restrictive to only allow them to see output from the end
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+ of the code block.
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+
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+ Instead I think the most accessible way to introduce org-babel to
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+ people, at least while they are learning it, is as an immensely
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+ powerful environment in which to embed their 'scripts', which now
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+ also allows them to 'run' their 'scripts'. Especially as such
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+ people are likely to be the least capable of the user-base, a
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+ possible design-rule would be to make the scripting style of usage
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+ easy (default?), perhaps requiring a special option to enable a
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+ functional style. Those who will use the functional style won't
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+ have a problem understanding what's going on, whereas the 'skript
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+ kiddies' might not even know the syntax for defining a function in
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+ their language of choice. And of course we can allow the user to
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+ set a variable in their .emacs controlling the preference, so that
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+ functional users are not inconveniennced by having to provide
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+ header args the whole time.
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+
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+ Please don't get the impression that I am down-valuing the
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+ functional style of org-babel. I am constantly horrified at the
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+ messy 'scripts' that my colleagues produce in perl or R or
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+ whatever! Nevertheless that seems to be how a lot of people work.
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+
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+ I think you were leaning towards the last-value approach because
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+ it offered the possibility of unified code supporting both the
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+ single evaluation environment and the functional style. If you
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+ agree with any of the above then perhaps it will impact upon this
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+ and mean that the code in the two branches has to differ a bit. In
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+ that case, functional mode could perhaps after all evaluate each
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+ code block in its own environment, thus (re)approaching 'true'
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+ functional programming (side-effects are hard to achieve).
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+
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+#+begin_src sh
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+ls > files
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+echo "There are `wc -l files` files in this directory"
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+
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+#+end_src
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+
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*** TODO rework all source codes to use inferior-processes-buffers
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this will involve...
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@@ -510,6 +584,11 @@ waiting for guidance from those more familiar with yasnippets
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- [[file:lisp/org-babel-ref.el::TODO%20allow%20searching%20for%20names%20in%20other%20buffers][org-babel-ref.el:searching-in-other-buffers]]
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- [[file:lisp/org-babel.el::defun%20org-babel%20find%20named%20result%20name][org-babel.el#org-babel-find-named-result]]
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+** TODO figure out how to handle errors during evaluation
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+ R has a try function, with error handling, along the lines of
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+ python. I bet ruby does too. Maybe more of an issue for functional
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+ style; in my proposed scripting style the error just gets dumped to
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+ the org buffer and the user is thus alerted.
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** TODO figure out how to handle graphic output
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This is listed under [[* graphical output][graphical output]] in out objectives.
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